Dimitri: Getting Her to Put Work In

Hope everyone had a lovely Thanksgiving. For all your viewing pleasure, here's some ways to get a women putting in work to get you.

This will increase one of the three parts of Attraction. If you haven't read the Model of Attraction, those are:

Value for her life
A sense you're attainable
Her putting in effort to get you

"New Attraction Model" is available here:

http://the-approach.net/art_attraction_model.php

or in the ASF archives, whatever you please.

On 11/22/05 9:34:00 PM, effigyc wrote:
>So I want to talk more about
>the "making her work for you."

Absolutely.

>Below is my understanding of
>what we're talking about here,
>feel free to correct me if I'm
>wrong.
>
>We see a girl at a coffee
>shop. We start a
>conversation. We're making
>her laugh, vibing with her,
>having a good time.

Okay at this point, you already have some value for her life. Showing confidence, fun, maybe a little humor, social savvy, that you're cool, that you guys can have fun together.

Also since you're connecting with her (vibing, having a good time) she likely has some sense you're attainable. If you don't see any sign of her Auto-Rejection Mechanism kicking in, assume the attainability's there if you've got some connection.

So far, so good, except...

>Now, to
>insure that she'll want to see
>us again, we're going to make
>her put some effort into
>things.

... she hasn't put any work in! Exactly!

This is the Cost/Value Conception. In short, people don't value things they don't pay for. A girlfriend of mine takes me out to an expensive restaurant and gets me a $40 glass of wine and I don't finish it. I buy a bottle of water for myself and I refuse to throw it away before I drink it all.

The more EFFORT you put into getting something, the more you feel like you DESERVE it. That makes you actively want it, and want to pursue it and keep it. If I got given a bottle of water for free, but accidentally dropped it and it rolled under a table, I might just leave it there. But if I BUY the thing (effort) I'll go get it.

So I feel like I deserve it more. The other thing it does is...

>Thusly, she'll value
>them more.

Exactly! Great thinking man, your head's in the right place. When a woman feels like she wants something, she'll rationalize it's more valuable to herself. So it's a cycle, but to make a long story short:

Value for her life + Sense you could be attainable + Effort on her part =ATTRACTED

>The ways we go
>about this are:

There are LOTS of ways to do this. I could fill up 30 pages in a couple hours on how to do this. When I teach this stuff, I go on for quite a while. But a few things you can do:

>Neging - Let's say we cut her
>off in the middle of something
>she's saying, and say "Oh,
>you've kind of got a little
>booger there." This would
>certainly embaress the shit
>out of her, and do some
>serious damage to
>"attainablity." Would it
>however make her start working
>to get you? Is it even
>necissary?

A cardinal rule of negging is it's supposed to be playful, not an insult. That said, if you ALREADY had some potential value, a neg can get them to work. If they react at all... they're working to get you basically.

If they test you, they're putting energy into the interaction to make it go forwards, and giving you an opportunity to pass her test (and we all know what happens when you do that). If she starts qualifying herself, she's obviously working to get you.

However, if you had no value for her life at all, not potentially any (but don't be fooled, body language, walking patterns, facial expressions, style, and image can all communicate potential value, not just your words) then she'd just ignore you. That's actually the worst result you can get from a neg.

BUT if you neg at the wrong time, like if she's really opening up and you neg her, it'll tank attainability. That'll set off her Auto-Rejection Mechanism and she'll reject herself, which means she'll shut down. ARM manifests itself different ways, but she might get very rude, might get quiet and walk away, or might go start seeking validation elsewhere. Regardless ARM is a mistake, it means you let attainability get too low and is not a good place to be. But a well-placed neg can get her to start putting work in (also something truly amazing that I learned from Mystery personally was that after he does his 3 neg thing, he then communicates a "You've passed" vibe to her and qualifies her. Amazing to see, hard to describe, but he's framing it like she's worked for him - Very masterful on his part, he knows his stuff)

>Getting her to verbally
>qaulify herself to you -
>there's really only two ways I
>can think to do this. One is
>to simply ask her if she likes
>or can do certain things.
>i.e. do you like to go
>camping, or can you cook.

Basic screening questions, yes.

>Two would be to command her to
>qaulify herself. i.e. Style's
>tell me three interesting
>qaulities you have, or to say
>"Well, its great that you love
>shopping, but isn't there
>anything else you like to do?"

Okay, that's a second. There's lots more ways to get her to verbally qualify herself though. One way would be to disqualify her (see Japanese Nurse LR) on a characteristic she DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE. This will get them automatically qualifying themselves 90% of the time at the expense of your attainability (and if executed poorly, your value, since you will look like you don't have social skills if you say an innocent girl is too wild, etc).

There's lots of other ways. You can even make a blanket statement like, "Wow it's a shame so many people watch so much TV these days. I like to relax and veg sometimes, but people give up SO much of the amazing world out there." Will result in her verbally qualifying herself often.

Disqualify people in general who have a trait she herself doesn't like, and tie the OPPOSITE to her verbally qualifying.

This is powerful. If she's a world traveller, saying something like, "God so many people miss out on seeing the world, and I think they wind up being worse lovers and worse in relationships because of it."

Most people who travel love to rant about people who just "stay in their own backyard all life". So when you say that because of that they're worse lovers... it means when she agrees with you and says she travels, she's saying she's a good lover and good in relationships. Therefore, she'll feel like she's worked for you afterwards.

Remember, all of these components aren't about having/being/doing them, it's about the perception of them. Perceived value for her life, perceived attainability, perceived effort put in. She might put no "real" effort in, but if she feels she's worked hard for you, she'll want her prize regardless of if she really worked hard or not. Imagine you're getting ready for a big competition. You train really hard for the competition, days in and days out, sweat and blood. And you win! You're going to want your prize. Now... what if the competition was fixed, but you don't know that? You still feel like you worked hard to win, so you still feel attracted to the prize/title/status you got by winning. Even if the "work" that the women put in is "fixed", and they're not really working, that can be enough. Is it the best way? No, but it is a way.

>Getting her to physically do
>things. Like give you a
>massage or drive you
>somewhere.

Yes. Asking her to bring a small ingredient for cooking on her way over, or a bottle of wine. Or something unrelated to what you're doing with her even.

If she says she has to go to the store later, hand her $5 and ask her to buy you a copy of Gentlemen's Quarterly (magazine) while she's there. This is actually triple-pronged attack territory: That little technique will increase your value, her sense of your attainability, and the effort she's put in.

Effort: She's doing you a favor, working to please you and help you.

Attainability: Many men wouldn't realize that this technique increases attainability. It does. Any time you make plans past the current moment, it demonstrates you've already decided to see her again. Now if she turned out crazy, I'd cut my losses, let her keep the lousy magazine or $5, and bail. But that's not the way the female mind works... When you've got something "on the burner" they feel you're not going anywhere, and it increases the sense that it's possible to have you.

Value: You're confident and help delegate things you need help with to people you trust. You're not burdening her... picking up a magazine at checkout doesn't really make her life harder. Plus, it's GQ, you're a fashionable guy. You're not being over the top with your request, just nonchalant (note for guys who dress really, really poorly: Choose a different magazine) about it.

Other "tangible" things she can do for work: Help cook, help clean your place (YES, you can get a woman you just met to help clean your place on a first or second meet, it just takes some game), do anything that furthers your life or appears to please or help you, or getting her to do any little thing.

>So my questions are these:
>
>Am I even on the right page
>here?

Yes, you're definitely thinking in the right direction. You need to expand your horizons a little bit and think more. I've shared maybe 2% of my techniques for getting her to put in work with you here, there's a lot that can be done. Think about it: What can you do to make her feel like she's worked to get you?

Have fun with it. Not only will women in your life be more attracted to you if they're working for you, but you'll have more productive relationships. Enjoy!

>Are the techniques I'm
>talking about what Dimitri's
>advocating using?
>
>What are some other ways of
>making her "work" for you?

Oh, there's lots of things. Again, it's the perception of her working to get you.

These can be big things, like favors. Obviously paying for you is good. "Hey, you got this one?" at a coffee shop will have her buying your coffee. This tends to be bad for attainability, but good for effort, and it near always works. I'll often take a girl rollerskating on $2 skating night here. Skate rentals are $3, so it's $10 for both of us. I say, "Hey, you got this one?" It's $10, it's meaningless... but she paid for the date, so now any charming of her I do, she feels like she earned and values a lot more.

Other stuff: Well-phrased and well-framed compliments can actually make it seem like she WORKED to have you open her! It's amazing, isn't it? Men often forget that women put in TONS of work to appeal to men. If you're meeting up with her for a date and she looks really good, you can say, "Wow, I'm impressed. You must've taken a lot of time to fix yourself up but that means a lot to me - You look good girl." You just framed it like she went out of her way to impress you (which she probably did). How about this opener? "I saw you walking by... and I had to say... you look absolutely stunning." The pace part is her walking, then you HAD to say she looked stunning.

Here's one that many men won't identify with or understand. A lot of black guys, when they play the game, they say the woman has to make eye contact before they'll approach. Player Supreme has written about this, and it's a fairly standard pimp M.O. Then the guy approaches... SHE made the first move, and that move was EFFORT on her part to get the man. Even something as simple as eye contact can be her putting in work.

Other stuff. "Testing" her on the dance floor/rollerskating rink/wherever. Having her help you with something big in your life. Having her lie to someone fore you (unscrupulous but +effort definitely). The "conspiracy" frame is really good for work, like if you tell her to subtly slip you her number.

How about when you #close and don't have a pen? Go fetch it yourself? Hell no! Have her get the pen, or play the "Pen Guess" game I created for this very reason.

Say, "Hmmm... let's make a game of this, we'll take turns guessing who around here is the most likely person to have a pen. I'll guess first." Then you guess a person, and walk up to them and ask if they have a pen. If they do, it's no different than if you'd just asked them without he game. But if they don't, now it's her turn to guess who has a pen, and then go ask that person if she can borrow it.

I originally made up that game to preserve value (because asking multiple people if they have a pen looks poorly) but it increases the effort she's put in too, ESPECIALLY if the game goes 5 or 6 people deep. And guess what? If she winds up being the one to get the pen, the number is about 60% more solid. Hey, maybe we should even make the first guess someone unlikely to have a pen? ;)

>Effy.

There's lots of ways to get them feeling like they've put in work, Effy. The big thing is to remember to do it. Now some guys will just do this a token amount because they want to get laid. That's cool, and their game will improve by taking little games I've invented, little lines and cues from solid top-notch players, and throwing them in. But if you want to be really superb, you should start demanding that women work to get you. Have standards and make them meet them. Have them help with logistics. Have them work to catch you.

>If you question anything,
>question
>your limitations.

Great quote man. Now get those women a-workin'!


Sebastian

as seen on Fast Seduction